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Pseudo-Trithemius Wunder Buch
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adammclean
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 Posted: Wed Feb 12th, 2014 09:25 pm
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Back in 1980 I found a German book ascribed to Trithemius,
entitled the Wunder-Buch von der göttlichen Magie. This was printed in the 19th century, and purported to be a reprint of a work printed in the 16th or 17th centuries. I was especially interested in it because it contained some images taken from the Crowning of Nature manuscripts.

An edition of this has now been published in Italian.

Il libro delle meraviglie / Giovanni Tritemio ; a cura di Alessandro Boella e Antonella Galli
Roma : La lepre, 2012.

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Paul Ferguson
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 Posted: Mon Nov 30th, 2020 08:47 am
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I am interested in this text as I am currently translating a book from 1745 entitled "Magia divina oder gründ- und deutlicher Unterricht von denen fürnehmsten caballistischen Kunst-Stücken der alten Israeliten, Welt-Weisen und Ersten"

https://wellcomelibrary.org/item/b30511677#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&z=-1.6437%2C-0.1086%2C4.2874%2C2.1722 

which seems to draw heavily on it.

The Italian translation to which Adam refers above is presumably of Johann Scheible's reprint from the 1850s. WorldCat reports another edition from 1800 with no publisher mentioned.

My question is, has anyone seen the original "Passau 1506" edition which Scheible claims he was reprinting?

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Screenshot from 2020-11-29 20-04-19.png

Last edited on Mon Nov 30th, 2020 08:50 am by Paul Ferguson

adammclean
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 Posted: Mon Nov 30th, 2020 10:00 am
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Somewhere in many many boxes, I have a microfilm of the German version I found in the National Library of Scotland.

Last edited on Mon Nov 30th, 2020 10:00 am by adammclean

Paul Ferguson
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 Posted: Mon Nov 30th, 2020 04:04 pm
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Their database lists this one:

https://search.nls.uk/permalink/f/sbbkgr/44NLS_ALMA21431096980004341

but that’s the Scheible.

adammclean
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 Posted: Mon Nov 30th, 2020 06:58 pm
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I will look it out and see what it is.

Gunnar Kossatz
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 Posted: Fri Dec 25th, 2020 03:22 pm
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Paul Ferguson wrot

My question is, has anyone seen the original "Passau 1506" edition which Scheible claims he was reprinting?

I am German and I have transcribed a few old German texts from the 16th century and translated two old texts into English e.g. the "Naturweg" - I have read about half of the text and I am 99% certain that this is quasi modern German, fitting the 19th century, but certainly not originating in or near 1500.So if the "author" has no also converted old German to new German than this is not legitimate IMO.If it wouldn't look so fake I would transcribe it and possible even translate it. The text is only about 10 A4 pages long.

Paul Ferguson
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 Posted: Fri Dec 25th, 2020 03:41 pm
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Thank you.
This is consistent with what I have discovered elsewhere.
There is, as you suggest, a possibility that Scheible modernised the German.
I am actually translating a manuscript from the Kloss collection which is similar to the printed Magia Divina but not the same. Here are two brief extracts concerning homunculi and a Magic Bell:
1.

"Nimm von der 🝈 aus den Animalischen Reiche so Cap. 30, p:83 et: Seqq | it. p. 157. ist beschrieben, wirff von solcher 1 gran schwer in dein Glaß, und setze es hier wieder in gelinde Wärme 1 Monath, so wird sich ein Pläßlein im Glaße in die Höhe begeben, wann du siehest, daß sich Äderlein daran zeigen, so hab dein abgegossenes Menstrum eben auf solchen Ofen stehen, daß es warm sei, gieße von solchen ein wenig hinein, und verwahre das Glaß geschwinde, doch daß du es nicht so sehr bewe- [24] gest, laßt es wieder 1 Monath stehen, so wird die Blaße immer größer,

Wann der Monath verfloßen, so gieße wieder ein wenig darauf, und daß tue 4 Monath; nach dieser Zeit, wird sich etwas bewegen, in den Glaß oder Blaße; also warte es noch 4 Monden lang, doch das du ihm allezeit etwas mehr Menstrui gebest, denn im Anfang. Nach dieser Zeit, wenn du etwas hören wirst, als zischte es, so gehe hinzu, so wirst du 2 Lebendige Kreaturen haben."

2.

"Dieses ist also das Urim und Thumim, welches noch in der Societät & Brüderschafft unter uns zu finden, [20] daß Glöcklein zu gebrauchen, braucht keine weitere Beschreibung, als was Theophrastus [Paracelsus] davon beschrieben, welches er auch wahrhafftig gehabt, und auch beschrieben. Dass Urim und Thumim hat er nicht machen können, W er gewust hat, hat er durch dieses Glöcklein, von der Olÿmpischen Geistern erfahren."


I would be very interested in hearing your comments, as a native German speaker, on the possible date of the text and whether you have any idea which book is being referred to at "Cap. 30, p. 83 et seq."


Last edited on Fri Dec 25th, 2020 03:41 pm by Paul Ferguson

Gunnar Kossatz
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 Posted: Fri Dec 25th, 2020 05:04 pm
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I would be very interested in hearing your comments, as a native German speaker, on the possible date of the text and whether you have any idea which book is being referred to at "Cap. 30, p. 83 et seq."



I have no idea which book is referenced. the language seems mid 18th century give or take. I have searched google for "Animalischen Reiche" +"30. Capitel" but to no avail.If you have the time look which book actually has cap. 30 on page 83 or before.
It will be a rare occasion. On the other hand IMO the 18th century was the worst in terms of fake "alchemy" books.

Paul Ferguson
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 Posted: Fri Dec 25th, 2020 05:07 pm
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Thank you. Yes, early to mid-18th century I think.I have done various searches into the page number but so far to no avail.
Thank you again,
P


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