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'Cosmopolite'
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Carl Lavoie
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 Posted: Sun Mar 6th, 2011 05:08 am
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.

Reading some entries from the Tresor des Recherches & Antiquitez Gauloises et Françoises by Pierre Borel that have been included here, in the curious Dictionnaire étymologique de G. Ménage (Paris, 1750. Thanks, Paul !), I was wondering, in the ‘COSMOPOLITE’ columns,  who exactly was that correspondent from Warsaw, this Monsieur des Noyers, whose letter from 1651 “semble éclaircir fort bien cette affaire, & demesler ces deux Vies, selon la vérité de l’Histoire” ?

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=Qg7pRmr4WGEC&dq=%22un%20Christ%20qui%20seme%20son%20sang%22&pg=RA1-PA51#v=snippet&q=COSMOPOLITE%20habitant&f=false

 

Rafał has established how utterly unreliable this Pierre des Noyers was as a biographer ...
 

http://books.google.com/books?id=7hHqfdluhRgC&pg=PA154&lpg=PA154&dq=Borel+des+Noyers&source=bl&ots=gv14NIBkdx&sig=0CBAbtW8Ww9IWL6jYkGqdY1e3aA&hl=en&ei=VSVzTbioGoH78Ab98-zODw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&sqi=2&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Borel%20des%20Noyers&f=false





... but what else do we know of him ? What do you think his aim was, trying thus to prove that Sendivogius didn't pen the Novum lumen chymicum ?

 

....................................................................................................................

P.S.: His Lettres don't mention anything related to alchemy.

http://books.google.com/books?id=3J4CAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Pierre+des+Noyers&hl=en&ei=dCxzTf78KdSEtgfDydyADw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
.


Last edited on Sun Mar 6th, 2011 06:04 am by Carl Lavoie

Paul Ferguson
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 Posted: Sun Mar 6th, 2011 02:16 pm
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Ménage's interesting book is also available on-line at Gallica:

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k507912.langFR

On Ménage (pictured):

"Ménage made many enemies and suffered under the satire of Boileau and of Molière. Molière immortalized him as the pedant Vadius in Les Femmes savantes, a portrait Ménage pretended to ignore."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilles_M%C3%A9nage

Attached Image (viewed 692 times):

Gilles_Ménage_1666.jpg

Last edited on Sun Mar 6th, 2011 02:16 pm by Paul Ferguson

Rafal T. Prinke
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 Posted: Mon Mar 7th, 2011 09:58 pm
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Hi Carl,

Pierre Des Noyers (1606-1693) was a personal secretary to the Queen of Poland, Marie Louise Gonzaga, and an important member of the respublica litteraria, especially as a correspondent of Ismaël Boulliau. I believe he did not have bad intentions but just heard that story, which may well have been started by Sendivogius himself as a sort of safety precaution against being imprisoned and tortured himself.

There is a bit more on his interest in alchemy in:

François Secret, “Astrologie et alchimie au XVIIe siècle: un ami oublié d’Ismaël Boulliau – Pierre des Noyers, secrétaire de Marie-Louise de Gonzague, reine de Pologne,” Studi Francesi 60 (1976), 463-479


Carl Lavoie
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 Posted: Sat Aug 31st, 2013 03:49 am
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.
Appended to a French edition of Sendivogius (Paris, 1691, p. 319), there is the “Dialogue qui découvre plus amplement la préparation de la Pierre Philosophale” in which the author (?) is mocking a fellow alchemist who, he says, misinterpreted the sentence that one needs to dig up knee’s deep in order to retrieve the virginal Salt from the Quick Water, and that he not only toil in vain, but went on to disseminate his erroneous opinions by a treatise that he had had printed :

« […] il se mettoit en l’esprit que pour acquérir ce Sel de virginité, il foüilleroit jusques sous le fondement des racines, en un certain lieu de terre grasse, pour en extraire une terre vierge qui n’eût point encores été impregnée; établissant mal-à-propos cette maxime que, pour obtenir l’eau vive du Sel nitre, il falloit foüir dans une fosse profondément jusqu’aux genoux, laquelle rêverie il ne se contenta pas seulement de poursuivre par son labeur; mais encore il la rendit publique par un discours qu’il fit imprimer, dans lequel il soûtenoit que c’étoit la véritable pensée de tous les Philosophes. »

http://books.google.ca/books?id=jbYs_yOw3sIC&pg=PA319#v=onepage&q&f=false


Is he, here, taking a swing at E. Philalethes?...


Because more than a decade ealier, in 1678 in his Fons Chemicæ Philosophiæ (in the Musaeum Hermeticum, p.803), Philalethes did give that specific instruction :


“& in hoc monte vapor clauditur, sive spiritus, qui ad opus nostrum est apprime necessarius, non autem ascendit, nisi vivisicetur, nec vivisicatur, nisi in montis summitate terra ad genua fodiatur, verum si hoc fiat, ascendit spiritus, sive tenuissima exhalatio, quæ congelata ab aere stillando per guttas decurrit in aquam limpidissimam ...”

....................................................
“and in this Mountain a Vapour or Spirit is shut up, which highly necessary for our Work; but it does not ascend unless the Earth be digged Knee deep in the top of the Mountain, but if this be done, the Spirit or thin Exhalation ascends, which being congealed by the Air, drop by drop, runs into most clear Water,”



http://archive.org/stream/musaeumhermeticu00meri#page/803/mode/1up



The English translation is from the last of the Three Tracts of the Great Medicine of Philosophers for humane and metalline bodies by Eirenaeus Philalethes (London, 1694) : ‘The Fountain of Chymical Philosophy’.
.

Carl Lavoie
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 Posted: Sun Sep 1st, 2013 03:40 pm
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.
Implicit to the question is the fact that the “Dialogue qui découvre plus amplement la préparation de la Pierre Philosophale” appears, it seems, for the first time in this 1691 edition in French, and thus, post-date the the Musaeum Hermeticum that includes the Fons Chemicæ Philosophiæ.

Rafał, any clue about who would have penned this "Dialogue..."?
.

Paul Ferguson
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 Posted: Sun Sep 1st, 2013 06:35 pm
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Carl Lavoie wrote:
.
Implicit to the question is the fact that the “Dialogue qui découvre plus amplement la préparation de la Pierre Philosophale” appears, it seems, for the first time in this 1691 edition in French, and thus, post-date the the Musaeum Hermeticum that includes the Fons Chemicæ Philosophiæ.

Rafał, any clue about who would have penned this "Dialogue..."?
.


De Nuysement?

"Quant au traité du Sel, on dit qu'il a été rédigé par le sieur Clovis Hesteau de Nuysement."

http://herve.delboy.perso.sfr.fr/traite_sel.htm

Rafal T. Prinke
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 Posted: Sun Sep 1st, 2013 07:01 pm
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Hi Carl and Paul,

The dialogue forms an integral part of the Treatise on Salt, included in the Oeuvres (published by Adam in the 1722 English translation by Digby as Hermetic Research Series No. 8, also by Holmes Publishing Group in the translation of Patrick Smith from French). The German original was first published in Johann Harprecht's _Lucerna salis_ of 1658, of which the French version is a free translation (not exact, however, according to Duveen).

Paul Ferguson
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 Posted: Sun Sep 1st, 2013 09:43 pm
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Rafal T. Prinke wrote:
Hi Carl and Paul,

The dialogue forms an integral part of the Treatise on Salt, included in the Oeuvres (published by Adam in the 1722 English translation by Digby as Hermetic Research Series No. 8, also by Holmes Publishing Group in the translation of Patrick Smith from French). The German original was first published in Johann Harprecht's _Lucerna salis_ of 1658, of which the French version is a free translation (not exact, however, according to Duveen).



Lucerna salis is available here:

http://books.google.com.br/books/about/Lucerna_salis_philosophorum_hoc_est_Deli.html?hl=pt-BR&id=bt0xBG2OqzYC

Rafal T. Prinke
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 Posted: Sun Sep 1st, 2013 10:03 pm
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At the end of the dialogue the author presents himself as:

Auctore me per anagr. nominato:

Sophicis tortor furit unda enthea

Last edited on Sun Sep 1st, 2013 10:03 pm by Rafal T. Prinke

Carl Lavoie
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 Posted: Mon Sep 2nd, 2013 12:06 am
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.
Lucerna Salis, p. 146

hinc pronebat sibi ad acquirendum talem virginitatis salem fodere subter radicum fundamentum, in loco quodan pinguis telluris, indeque terram virgineam nondum imprægnatam eruere, confirmatus Cosmopolitæ verbis, qui dicit : quod pro impredantâ vivâ undâ salis nitri fovea sit fodienda ad genua usque : quod deliramentum suum non modo in actum vocabat, sed etiam typis publicis vulgabat, id ipsum genuinam mentem omnium scriptorium Philosophicorum.”



http://books.google.com.br/books?id=bt0xBG2OqzYC&hl=pt-BR&pg=PA146#v=onepage&q&f=false

................................................

Thank you both. Noted : 1658. But the first question remains : who is he mocking by saying that this author did not understand the words of Cosmopolite when asked to dig knee deep and later even went on to publish in a book deliramentum suum ?
.

Paul Ferguson
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 Posted: Mon Sep 2nd, 2013 01:30 am
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Rafal T. Prinke wrote:
At the end of the dialogue the author presents himself as:

Auctore me per anagr. nominato:

Sophicis tortor furit unda enthea



...anagrammatizes to IOSEPHAT FREDIRICUS HAUTTNORTON (or HAUTNORTTON)

See:
http://www.levity.com/alchemy/a-archive_jan01.html


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