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Melusina and the Symbolum TP
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Paul Ferguson
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 Posted: Fri Dec 26th, 2008 03:15 pm
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Tom Willard wrote:
Looks like the name should be "Joannes Theobaldus." There was a Basel cleric of that name in the late sixteenth century:

http://aulongdudoubs.ifrance.com/uni-fribourg-mayer.htm


Seems to be definitely Thebaidus:

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Thebaidus.jpg

Paul Ferguson
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 Posted: Fri Dec 26th, 2008 04:53 pm
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I have just discovered evidence of a printed edition of this work dating from the year of authorship, 1616. The printer was Paulus Schrammius (Paul Schramm or perhaps Paul Schramb):

http://books.google.com/books?id=Eh0vOwAACAAJ&dq="Pauli+Schrammii"&lr=

Schrammius had his press in Olomouc, now in the Czech Republic.

Last edited on Fri Dec 26th, 2008 04:59 pm by Paul Ferguson

Tom Willard
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 Posted: Fri Dec 26th, 2008 05:13 pm
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Good find! Not in WorldCat.

Paul Ferguson
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 Posted: Fri Dec 26th, 2008 05:34 pm
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Paul Ferguson wrote:
Tom Willard wrote:
Looks like the name should be "Joannes Theobaldus." There was a Basel cleric of that name in the late sixteenth century:

http://aulongdudoubs.ifrance.com/uni-fribourg-mayer.htm


Seems to be definitely Thebaidus:


"Thebaidus" would presumably indicate that he was a member of the group of Thebaid solitaries, as Morien (Morienus), another of the authors cited by Bonacina, was reputed to have been.

Paul Ferguson
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 Posted: Sat Dec 27th, 2008 04:28 pm
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There seems to have been a Desert Father called John the Theban, or "John the Less, the Theban". He is mentioned in "The Book of Paradise: Being the Histories and Sayings of the Monks and Ascetics of the Egyptian Desert by Palladius, Hieronymus and Others", printed for Lady Meux by W. Drugulin, Leipzig, 1904 and in Sister Benedicta Ward's "Sayings of the Desert Fathers, though since the two quotations from him in Bonacina are purely alchemical, one wonders if this could possibly be the same person.

Leigh Penman
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 Posted: Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 10:25 pm
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Slightly off-topic, Paul and Tom, but I wonder if I could interject here and ask in what context the 'Clangor buccinae' is mentioned?

Season's greetings to everybody!

L.

Leigh Penman
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 Posted: Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 10:36 pm
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Paul Ferguson wrote: I have just discovered evidence of a printed edition of this work dating from the year of authorship, 1616. The printer was Paulus Schrammius (Paul Schramm or perhaps Paul Schramb):

http://books.google.com/books?id=Eh0vOwAACAAJ&dq="Pauli+Schrammii"&lr=

Schrammius had his press in Olomouc, now in the Czech Republic.


Paul, on the basis of this, I'm going to suggest the possibility that the manuscript you are using might be a revision, and was almost certainly produced after 1620. For it was in that year that the first edition of the Clangor buccinae propheticae (No place [Erfurt?], No printer [Birckner?]) was first issued in print.

It seems the text had actually circulated shortly before this time (it is mentioned in 1618/19 several times as a MS under the title 'Tubae propheciae'), but it does not seem to have existed as early as 1616. This might suggest that you are dealing with a revision of some description, or that the 1616 printed edition is actually a (slightly?)different work.

L.

Tom Willard
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 Posted: Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 02:55 am
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Aren't these two separate books? The Clangor Buccinae which appeared in the Ars Auriferae, and was translated (as Der Thon der Schalneyen) in the German Turba Philosophorum of 1613, does not sound at all like the Clangor Buccinae Propheticae of 1620. On WorldCat the full title of the 1620 work is:

Clangor Buccinae Propheticae De Novißimis temporibus, Das ist: Trommetenschall wie der Eyver unnd Zorn Gottes werde rauchen/ unnd wie der Name deß Antichristi unter dem Himmel werde außgetilget werden/ unnd solches für dem letzten Gericht/ oder Allgemeinen Tag der Aufferstehung der Todten: In dieser jetz angehenden Zeit der grossen Erndte/ da der Tempel Gottes mit dem Rohr einem Stecken gleich abgemessen wirdt ... Zu Christlichem Unterricht/ un[d] erweckung warhafftiger Buß ... /

adammclean
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 Posted: Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 08:33 am
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Paul Ferguson wrote: I have just discovered evidence of a printed edition of this work dating from the year of authorship, 1616.


I have not heard of a printed version of this work. It would be important to source a copy. Unfortunately this link is to some Google book title database, set up, I suspect, to direct people to buy items from amazon and abebooks, so it must have extracted this entry from some source. This source is, however, not identified, which is rather frustrating. When I get back to to Glasgow tomorrow, I will have a look in Bruening's Bibliography and see if it is mentioned there. He usually cites a library that holds a copy.

 

Paul Ferguson
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 Posted: Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 02:17 pm
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Leigh Penman wrote:
Paul Ferguson wrote: I have just discovered evidence of a printed edition of this work dating from the year of authorship, 1616. The printer was Paulus Schrammius (Paul Schramm or perhaps Paul Schramb):

http://books.google.com/books?id=Eh0vOwAACAAJ&dq="Pauli+Schrammii"&lr=

Schrammius had his press in Olomouc, now in the Czech Republic.


Paul, on the basis of this, I'm going to suggest the possibility that the manuscript you are using might be a revision, and was almost certainly produced after 1620. For it was in that year that the first edition of the Clangor buccinae propheticae (No place [Erfurt?], No printer [Birckner?]) was first issued in print.

It seems the text had actually circulated shortly before this time (it is mentioned in 1618/19 several times as a MS under the title 'Tubae propheciae'), but it does not seem to have existed as early as 1616. This might suggest that you are dealing with a revision of some description, or that the 1616 printed edition is actually a (slightly?)different work.

L.


Happy New Year Leigh and to all.

Here is the date from the Foreword. Unless the rest of the book was written much later the date 1616 would seem to be definite:

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MDCXVI.jpg

Paul Ferguson
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 Posted: Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 02:19 pm
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Tom Willard wrote:
Aren't these two separate books? The Clangor Buccinae which appeared in the Ars Auriferae, and was translated (as Der Thon der Schalneyen) in the German Turba Philosophorum of 1613, does not sound at all like the Clangor Buccinae Propheticae of 1620. On WorldCat the full title of the 1620 work is:

Clangor Buccinae Propheticae De Novißimis temporibus, Das ist: Trommetenschall wie der Eyver unnd Zorn Gottes werde rauchen/ unnd wie der Name deß Antichristi unter dem Himmel werde außgetilget werden/ unnd solches für dem letzten Gericht/ oder Allgemeinen Tag der Aufferstehung der Todten: In dieser jetz angehenden Zeit der grossen Erndte/ da der Tempel Gottes mit dem Rohr einem Stecken gleich abgemessen wirdt ... Zu Christlichem Unterricht/ un[d] erweckung warhafftiger Buß ... /


There are two quotes from the Clangor, both on the same page towards the end of the book. Here they are. Perhaps someone recognises the quotations?

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Clangor.jpg

Paul Ferguson
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 Posted: Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 02:26 pm
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adammclean wrote:
Paul Ferguson wrote: I have just discovered evidence of a printed edition of this work dating from the year of authorship, 1616.


I have not heard of a printed version of this work. It would be important to source a copy. Unfortunately this link is to some Google book title database, set up, I suspect, to direct people to buy items from amazon and abebooks, so it must have extracted this entry from some source. This source is, however, not identified, which is rather frustrating. When I get back to to Glasgow tomorrow, I will have a look in Bruening's Bibliography and see if it is mentioned there. He usually cites a library that holds a copy.

 


I wonder if the Bonacina museum in Trebova has a copy? They certainly refer to the book in their press releases.

http://www.zamekmoravskatrebova.cz/index.php?id=16

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Paul Ferguson
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 Posted: Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 02:30 pm
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The book contains several "E numbers" like the one below. I assume these are instructions to the typesetter or his binder, which might suggest that this was Bonacina's print-ready proof for the printer. Any comments on what these numbers are?

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E number.jpg

Paul Ferguson
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 Posted: Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 07:16 pm
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adammclean wrote:
Paul Ferguson wrote: I have just discovered evidence of a printed edition of this work dating from the year of authorship, 1616.


I have not heard of a printed version of this work. It would be important to source a copy. Unfortunately this link is to some Google book title database, set up, I suspect, to direct people to buy items from amazon and abebooks, so it must have extracted this entry from some source. This source is, however, not identified, which is rather frustrating. When I get back to to Glasgow tomorrow, I will have a look in Bruening's Bibliography and see if it is mentioned there. He usually cites a library that holds a copy.

 


I believe the University of Wrocław has a copy,

Paul

Paul Ferguson
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 Posted: Sun Jan 4th, 2009 12:15 am
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Paul Ferguson wrote:
Here is a complete list of authors cited by Bonacina in his Compendiolum:

...



To that list add Mundus (contributor to the Turba Philosophorum).


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